Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules

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Lurch032003

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You may know or not, that gov.co.uk has released that come may 2018 a rolling 40 years plus vehicle classed as historic which does not pay ved now will no longer also be required to have a mot .
Full details and rules and regulations to what vehicles modifications and weights and class off vehicle can be read on link below --- discuss ----

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644412/government-response-to-exempting-vehicles-of-historical-interest-from-roadworthiness.pdf
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genem

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 10:28:28 AM »
Yep, interesting times for the Series owners among us. Short-hand is that a rolling 40 years is to be applied to MOT exemption from next year.  That 1977 S3 will not need an MOT..... unless its been modified ( since 1988) such that its got a 15% increase in power to weight ratio, which will hit the TDi & V8 conversions. Time to dig that 2.25lt lump out of the back of the shed ?

No idea how they'd plan on enforcing this though. Do the DVLA records know what the original power plant was or is that over-written when a new engine is installed ?  I suspect its also possible to get an extra 15% out of a 2.25 with nothing visible to the eye by increasing the compression ratio, engineering manifolds etc ?   Somehow I don't think they plan on sticking us all on a dynamometer ?

.....and not that long before early 90s/110s are exempt too !  Makes you feel old !


 
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Lurch032003

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 05:00:53 PM »
Yep, interesting times for the Series owners among us. Short-hand is that a rolling 40 years is to be applied to MOT exemption from next year.  That 1977 S3 will not need an MOT..... unless its been modified ( since 1988) such that its got a 15% increase in power to weight ratio, which will hit the TDi & V8 conversions. Time to dig that 2.25lt lump out of the back of the shed ?

No idea how they'd plan on enforcing this though. Do the DVLA records know what the original power plant was or is that over-written when a new engine is installed ?  I suspect its also possible to get an extra 15% out of a 2.25 with nothing visible to the eye by increasing the compression ratio, engineering manifolds etc ?   Somehow I don't think they plan on sticking us all on a dynamometer ?

.....and not that long before early 90s/110s are exempt too !  Makes you feel old !

Hi gem,
Unless folk have informed dvla of there engine serial number and size most are un-recorded on the v5 so who to say what was fitted and when bar its orginal reg number shows up if you check mot or tax history it has what size engine it orginally or last record of change  it had. So if mr pc knows his stuff and are allowed to pop your bonnent to check what engine you have in it and take or find a serial number of the engine to check against there records again vosa check points on motorways and few roads they have power to check all 8 score points are orginal to the vehicle records so that it self will be hard to police so to speak , how many police officers or vosa are up on there mechanical skills to identify all historic vehicles that will qualify for exception to mot ?
Dig out the old 2:25 ! Which one lol, still trying to fit a 2.5n/a which makes me wonder about the cost of these old engines are going to become quite sought after and price wise will go up mmmm time to lock them up secure !
Again with vehicles being mot and tax excempt this will again increase the values of these vehicles which in turn the spair parts market will increase it has a big knock on effect this mot exception .

I wonder how many coil sprung series will be excempt ?? People with the v8 etc will a cost of a mot really make them want to swap back as fir safety reason having your mot each year helps you keep your vehicle in a safe condition but how many will see it as a way not to bother to fix ir check items which would normally be a fail ???
Series 1 ,2 and 3's all have the brake issues which with a mot test your always ensuring you have them all working but how many will bother when it up to them to check ??
I can see a lot of potential vehicles which should not be on the road suddenly appear come next year and a increase of accidents due to this happening, sorry I'm looking at it negatively as know how much work is involved yearly just to maintain the landys and always think I will still will get a yearly check up wether excempt or not as a second pair of eyes is always good and may help ensure the vehicle your driving is safe for you and fir fellow road users to know that the vehicle they see is highly maintained.

I think they estimated 293 thousand vehicles will come excempt come may next year I wonder how many out the figure a year later are still road worthy or been involved in a accident due to poor or no maintance done??

At end of day how or who will check your vehicle meets the qualifying excemption if nothing in v5 or engine has been change who will own up to it ?
Who out the thousands will still ensure the vehicle is regularly fully checked and any repairs are done to make it road worthy ?
How many vehicles ie landrover which claim to be tax free which are highly modded and it's just a plate and v5 making it tax exempt will be mot excempt and who will decide that they are ?
Questions questions so having two vehicles mot and tax excempt is that good or bad for me I wonder ??
Ah well just me blabbering on as usual pay no attention folks catch u all soon .

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Alan Mc

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 07:56:51 PM »
Thanks for this adjoin - very helpful.  So, I have a 1968 VW Karmann Ghia in the garage and needs an mot in October this year. 

Am I right in assuming therefore that I can keep in in the garage until May next year and drive without the need for a MOT? 

If so, this is great news. 

Alan.

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aqms987

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 10:44:31 PM »
 Exemption from having an MOT is not a licence to run an unroadworthy vehicle! The MOT standards are not a mountain to climb once a year,they are a standard never to fall below!. No vehicle should be used on a public road whilst below those standards, such use could invalidate the insurance cover.
 I suspect there are many vehicles in use at present with dubious claims to be series vehicles but are cobbled together from various donor vehicles of unknown vintage. I am sure the Police & VOSA will be alert to this. I would think that claims to cherished reg. nos will also be in doubt, with the resultant issue of  a Q plate. I am not aware of any coil sprung series vehicles having been in standard production & it would not take a mechanical genius to note the difference.
 I would suggest that the MOT test & it's fee is a small price to pay for an independent safety check especially on vehicles with a single line hydraulic brake system where one leaking pipe results in total loss of the service brake.

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genem

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2017, 11:45:16 AM »
I agree with ^^^^^.  I'm still not sure why removing the requirement for an MOT is seen as a good idea. Reading a few comments on the Series 2 Club from members looking for technical advice disproved the theory that all Classic car owners are capable mechanics who keep their vehicle in top-notch condition. As an example, I've recently bought a 1965 series 2 with a home-brew 2.25 diesel conversion. The POs solution to the diesel return pipe issue was to knock a hole in the tank and poke a pipe through. Not even a hint of sealing, just a length of brake pipe stuck through a 1/2 in hole....  His solution to the missing throttle lever was a cable-tie and some wire. The glow-plugs had been wired to a totally unsuitable switch which had melted... the list continues. Under next year regs I could have tried to drive it home, in that condition, from Guildford.

Maybe the Morgan owners are better mechanics than us....

If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....

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DRH

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2017, 08:21:36 PM »
I wonder when insurance companies will clock this and maybe rightly insist on some form of test?   

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aqms987

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 10:31:13 AM »
 There is no reason why any responsible owner could not submit a vehicle for MOT whether or not it is mandatory, you just pay your money & accept the result! The less mechanically gifted could insist on a fresh MOT as part of the purchase arrangement, if the seller refuses then just walk away.
 In the event of a class IV vehicle requiring a VOSA prohibition clearance the procedure is that a full MOT has to be carried out irrespective of the age of the vehicle eg less than 3 years old or in this case more than 40 years old. HGV's clearance procedure is similar irrespective of when the last test was conducted indeed a prohibition can be issued at Annual Test where a serious defect is discovered. VOSA Examiners would not permit a seriously defective vehicle to be driven away where a danger to the public has been identified, they would insist on a safe removal procedure.
 MOT inspectors do not have that authority!
 I too would not be surprised if insurance companies would insist on an MOT type inspection at 40 plus years.

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genem

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 04:39:24 PM »
^^^^ I'm told by S2C members with pre 1960 Series 2s that the specialist Classic Insurance companies don't require MOTs for road-going vehicles currently. I can also confirm that my 1967 Ambulance has been SORN for the last 4 years and Adrian Flux insured it on the spot, £63 for a years insurance, mileage limited to 3000, so there must be some expectation that it will hit the tarmac at some point.

Will "The system" allow a vehicle to be tested if it does not need an MOT or would it just be effectively an Inspection by the garage using the MOT criteria ? How would that be recorded, if at all ?   
If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....

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aqms987

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 11:11:26 PM »
 As the "system" accepts tests conducted on young vehicles for prohibition clearances, it also accepts tests being conducted early ie where the owner wishes to move the test date for their own reasons, there is nothing to stop an owner having a test carried out at any interval he wishes. This then implies that the owner of an age exempt vehicle can request & pay for an MOT if he so wishes for any age of vehicle. There are obviously age related test standards to be applied but the Tester will be well aware of them. There is no justification for knowingly using an unroad-worthy vehicle on a public road except under very limited circumstances.                                                                                                                     I must emphasize the above is my personal opinion.

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genem

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 10:17:03 AM »
^^^ I agree with you, I doubt the wisdom of removing the MOT requirement on these older vehicles, mine included. More respondents to the consultation objected than agreed but the DfT appear to be going ahead with it. Odd.
If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....

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genem

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If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....

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aqms987

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 09:37:37 AM »
 Many thanks to Genem for the update on the MOT exemption situation, I still cannot understand what the reason is for this change in the regulation.
 I still maintain my original view that the purpose of the MOT is to be a safety net to prevent the use of defective vehicles on public roads. Enthusiasts may regard it as an imposition on their hobby but public safety must come first! I well remember the early days of MOT testing & the shocking condition of some vehicles then in use. Braking systems of that time would be considered primitive by today's standards. It is also of concern that many of the vehicles which will now be exempt are by definition rarely used & are likely to moulder away quietly in their shed until being dragged out for the odd occasional run. Not good for braking systems, electrics or tyres which do not age particularly well. Landrover chassis are also prone to corroding from the inside out, the first clue the average owner may have is an inconvenient hole appearing beside a spring hanger or anchor point. I have seen the first indication to the owner being that the door is difficult to open due to the chassis cracking. The corrosion having been hidden by underseal, ie cam'o'flage. so I would advocate regular MOT testing ideally before the start of the regular use season of your vehicle irrespective of age. If in doubt insist on a fresh MOT at a garage of your choice prior to purchasing such an elderly vehicle or just walk away!   Allan

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Lurch032003

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 09:34:33 PM »
I wonder when insurance companies will clock this and maybe rightly insist on some form of test?
I was just thinking same , when you get a agree valuation they could insist a valid mot accompany the paperwork in order to either a agreed valuation or year check so vehicle condition mets the insurance cover provided it is only a matter if time where somthing like this comes onto effect which will make the mot excemption be a thing of past who in forces the need of one ie differant insurance company's may not insure you unless a current mot is availble or a I dependant check at a approved dealer of there choice is undertaken .
I still feel that even though we should all be very vigilant of checking and enduring our vehicles are road worthy at all times not just fir our own safety but fir others . But I also fear what other has said about those who don't wont can't or have mack of knowledge to inspect there vehicle before use taking thus as some sort of free use card been bad enough non display of tax disc that a vast increase of untaxed vehicles are on the road soon to have non mot vehicles join them this making road use alot more hazardous to all users . Again these are my views and opinion on it all but feel free to correct me or agree its a open subject that effects us all .
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genem

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Re: Mot excempt for vehicles 40years or older come may 2018 with some rules
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 10:33:10 PM »
I agree with the view that a regular check is actually a good idea. While many "classic" owners are very enthusiastic, not all are good mechanics....

The plan seems to be that the owners clubs represented by the FBHVC will de used by DVLA as the arbiters of what a "significant change" is as far as their marque goes. For Landrovers the Series 2 Club is currently talking with the Series 1 Club to see if we can agree a common approach.
If its not broken you are not trying hard enough....